How come Christians, or more broadly ‘Christian culture’, seems to spend a lot of time, money, and resources creating Gody, and often times gaudy, imitations of things found in mainstream culture? Why does Christian culture constantly strive to be utterly unoriginal?
The question about the lack of originality in Christian culture came to mind when I received some spam proudly announcing the arrival of a new Christian video sharing service called GodTube.
“You may have heard of youTube where you can upload and view videos for free – well now there is GodTube” Announced the spam that was presumably aimed at the woefully uninformed folk of faith who have somehow never heard of YouTube, the video sharing service recently sold to Google for a gajillion dollars or something.
“GodTube is where you can upload, share & watch videos in a Christian environment.” And there’s the special key phrase that assures them an audience. “Christian environment” meaning free from all that other stuff you might come across on YouTube like a video of Jesus getting run over by a bus or a mock commercial for the Jesus action figure.
The wording of the heavenly spam seemed to suggest that Christians are perhaps largely unaware of social developments. The reader is told “Technology is an amazing part of life” and that “More & more people are online searching for ‘stuff’.”
Ah yes, “stuff.” Who knows what things could posses our minds if we should happen upon some “stuff.”
Mocking aside GodTube isn’t an altogether bogus idea. Christianity has it’s own community and culture just like say, the gay community have their own community and culture, so why not have a GodTube?
My problem with things like GodTube is that far from being something that is unique and original and therefore set aside from mainstream culture, they’re just rip offs and no matter how great they might be, they’ll always be seen as a cheap imitation of the real thing.
In a rallying call to all Christians connected to the interwebs, GodTube writes “We are called by Jesus Christ to go and make disciples of the nations. Our goal is to help people be connected with Jesus Christ and experience the gift of eternal life.” Stirring stuff indeed, but then I have to ask, is creating Christian culture cocoons really the most effective way of communicating the message? Surely the tactic should be inclusive, not exclusive. Wouldn’t using the original YouTube to share a Christian videos be a far better idea if your goal is to “connect people with Jesus Christ”?
GodTube stands a good chance of being a big hit within the bounds of its intended community. One possible bump in the road might come when Google’s lawyers find that GodTube have mercilessly ripped off some of YouTube’s original graphics. That might lead to an internet battle worth watching on either service. God vs Google, a true clash of the titans. I’m off to sell tickets to that fight on eBay… and GodBay of course!
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GodTube
YouTube
Me on GodTube inviting them to respond to this post
Sunday Times article about GodTube
Porno’s X-Tube (Original site design tho!)
What would Jesus do? By Walter Kim
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 5:24 am
dude what was up with the crazy lady yelling..honestly i dont like how all these types of people and then the people who are ignorant and judgmental but call themselves christians get all the attention. no wonder everyone hates christians. its cause all they see is some idiots saying that they are christian. quite honestly if that lady did have a strong relationship with god she wouldnt have acted like that, nor would those ignorant people who hold up signs against homosexuals and go to soldiers funerals and protest. because quite honestly where in the Bible does it say to do stupid ignorant hurtful crap like that???
it doesnt, it says love ur neighbor and pray for ur enemies.
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 10:08 am
*sigh*
Westernised Christianity does suck at times I’m bound to agree :(
Christians struggle with the whole concept of being “obedient” to a Holy God and many try isolating themselves from ‘sinful behaviours’ while still being IN this world.
Thing is we struggle so needlessly with it all. We’ve become not only isolationist as a result of this dichotomy of relationship – we’ve become xenophobic and culturally inept as well.
I hate and detest this side of my “religion”. It’s the exact opposite of the example Christ himself observed when he walked the earth. HE moved among the sinners, thieves, prostitutes and riff-raff (as deemed by the elite power classes of his day), made friends with them, ate and drank at their homes and was their teacher AND above all their beloved FRIEND. sure! He called tough on a lot of stuff but on the whole He was about reconciliation not isolation. It was ironic in some ways that it was the religious isolationists of his day that got most of his harshest criticisms.
You are right to be critical of us in this post Simon. Western Christians with all their lovely affluence and freedoms have a lot to answer for in regards our total denial of and lack of understanding of the very culture we live in. For some strange and incomprehensible reason… People become downright FUDDY-DUDDY and traditionalist in the extreme when they become “christian”!!! I don’t get it and I’m supposed to be one!
Maybe if Christians WERE Radical and innovative – we’d be fed to the lions perhaps! maybe we’re all just “playing it safe”. I dunno.
*sigh*
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 2:12 pm
WOW! Although I hated to give a hit to the site, I had to go to Godtube.com to make sure you weren’t joking. absurd…that’s all I’ve got for you. And I hope someone gets sued. ha
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 2:58 pm
I have often asked myself a very similar question. If we as Christians have the Creator of everything within us, why aren’t we more creative? I am involved to a small extent in the music industry. It’s the same way with Christian music, it seems like there are very few artists who aren’t some copy cat version of some great secular band. Most Christian music today, especially in the contemporary genre is like music that was popular 20 years ago! Or, there will be 5 different artists who remake the same song. This makes me so crazy! We should be the innovators. It’s the same way with God Tube. While I believe they had good intentions, who are they really going to reach? It does make it look as though we are an “us” against “them” mentality and it’s not a true perception of a lot of Christian people at all.
There is a scripture in the bible that talks about David and his mighty men all coming together and bringing their skills to the table for the king. There was a group of men called the men of Issachar and what they brought to the table was wisdom. They understood the times and knew what Israel should do. (1 Chronicles 12:32) This is how the church today should be. We need to understand the times we live in and reach out to people accordingly. We can change the methods but not the message. Seems simple enough to me. If we are being honest here and the church/Christians are really in prayer and constant communication with the Lord as we should be, God would be pouring into us and we would be a lot different in the methods we use.
Great post!
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Funny you mention music Mandy. A number of years ago I went with my friend Rick to some great big Christian store. He had to get some stuff for his youth group or something, so I took myself off the the music area to check out the CD’s. What struck me was that I had never ever heard of any of the bands on offer and that under the tabs for each band in the CD rack they would have that bands name with ‘Sounds like” then the name of a similar sounding mainstream band.
At the time I found this completely puzzling. Here were bands trying to be different in many ways, yet desperately trying to be essentially the same too. I recall thinking that this felt a little like fraud to me. If I wanted to listen to Bon Jovi or Def Leppard (it was a long time ago!) then could I really accept listening to the sanitised immitation?
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Oh where to begin! First I see you found the God warrior (that’s the name the media gave her)… that was an interesting episode of wife swap. Actually i saw the one after it (just by chance) where they brought her back. It was interesting cause her community is also racist, and they put her with a Black Panther family.
Yeah, I dont like that we cant be original either. It’s one of my chief complaints.. although there are some bands doing their own thing, there are so many more just imitating- or even worse, rewriting. At a family gathering recently, my cousins were singing a song- Clocks by Coldplay- I was at first excited they knew the song until i listened to the words. It was a complete rewrite of a masterpiece! I was horrified…The song was all of a sudden about Christianity…they will never know the greatness or artistry of this song. I let them in on my disgust but they didnt care. It’s like taking Mona Lisa, cutting her face out and inserting a portrait of Mary or Jesus. Why would you do that?
Its a sad truth that this happens in Christian culture… I can see why it happens, and the thought progression that leads you there- people want to ‘enjoy’ things of the ‘world’ but feel guilty because its of the ‘world’- so they make it Christian. We’ve been doing this for ages, and so i suspect its not something that will change any time soon- but I sincerely wish it would.
on another note, how on earth did you find the abstinence man? that cant be for real…
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 4:25 pm
I once heard a bunch of Christians sing U2’s classic ‘I still haven’t found what I’m looking for.” Only in their idiot version they sang “I’ve finally found what I’m looking for” which spectacularly missed the fact that the original is a gospel song!
How did I find ‘abstinence man’? Well he was on their ‘featured content’ last night.
I should also point out that I have invited the GodTube creators to comment here if they want to.
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 5:23 pm
i pretty much agree with what’s been said. even if GodTube was a good idea in the first place, nothing excuses license infringement/theft of intellectual property. even if what they did [with the name, graphics, etc…] was legal, it still makes them look like a bunch of ignorant hacks. i love reading and writing [short stories] in my spare time, so originality and artistry are really important to me.
Cathi, great comment.
but seriously, why don’t we just go the whole way and make a GodNet? it can be like a Christian Internet. all the websites can begin with “god.” or something. that way we’d all have a place to hang out online away from the sinners, and they’d never be able to figure out our secret handshakes…
anyways….yeah. this would be funny if it weren’t true.
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Rachel used the phrase “Christian culture”. I wish there were no such thing. Simon referred to the “Christian community”, which I think is more appropriate way to think about the place of Christians in society.
One definition of culture (American Heritage Dictionary) is “The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.” The main thing in that list that differs between Christians and non is beliefs. Granted, beliefs will influence the other things in that list, but there is no need to recreate all of them as a separate or sub-culture.
That said, I think the Christian COMMUNITY (not culture) has something to offer that other communities would like to have, which is for real love*. Not saying the Christian community at large adequately reflects it, or that any of us express it all the time, but it’s there if you look in the right place.
*As defined here, not here.
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Hey, I just stumbled onto GodTube.com today. And from there found your video and blog.
I think you raise a good question, and the thoughts here are great too. It’s sad to me that Christians aren’t more creative than we show.
I think it’s also sad that the only Christians people really see and that they base an opinion off of are like the freaks you’ve shown. Not all Christians are so over the top as that lady. And I’d question her thoughts on Christianity if I had the chance.
Anyway . . enough said for now
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Hey Jeff, nice idea.
Well I being an non-Christian would prefer to keep mum on this issue, but about that christian music thing…it seems to be happening everywhere. Here we have ‘Vedic Rock’, original or not I think you guys are better judges (https://youtube.com/watch?v=7xVFgCjJm44).
And one thing…Hey Simon saw your video on Godtube, and you looked really young…at least a lot younger than the photo on this blog.
Wrote the following comment on May 31, 2007 at 1:08 am
Hey, Simon! I liked what you had to say and the way you presented it in your video. I’m proud of you for being vocal and unafraid to stand up! Good for you!
Also, I should say this woman should be slapped. Seriously. If you have issues, communicate like a human. This shrieking and acting hysterical is just nonsense.
Wrote the following comment on May 30, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Hi Simon, You raise some interesting questions. Here are my thoughts. My faith commissions me to be in the world, not of the world. I am not called to insulate myself from the world; I am to share the light of God in the dark places. But I don’t have to conform to the expectations of society, or worry about the fact that my values do not always align with common culture. There is a time for everything. A time to be out in the world, sharing the love of Christ. A time to deal with the dark realities of life. To answer critics. And there is also a time for rest from all that. A time for fellowship with other believers. A time to be encouraged and inspired, and to share ideas.
For me, that is the one of the purpose of Christian havens like a life group, or a Christian magazine, or a Christian web-site. It shouldn’t be the only place we Christians pop up. But there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, with having a place for us to be ourselves, without being subjected to the usual criticism and synicism that we deal with elsewhere. Or the kind of disturbing garbage or predatory users that are so common on You Tube, My Space, etc.
As far as originality, I think it’s natural to take something that is successful in one way, and adapt it so that it can be successful in another. Rather than reinventing the wheel. Should a Christian who is musically gifted and inspired to worship God feel obligated to invent a new genre of music? Of course not. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with rock and roll, for example. Some of the content might be inappropriate for a Christian listener, but the style of music is not objectionable. So a Christian artist then uses that medium to express himself or herself. And critics complain about it, because it sounds too similar to mainstream/secular music. The content is what makes God Tube unique.
Wrote the following comment on May 31, 2007 at 3:43 am
Hey, am I the only one who likes this idea? God Tubes is awesome!!! PS who cares if its a knock off, like non-Christians have never done that! And yes stupid videos are bound to abound.
Wrote the following comment on May 31, 2007 at 3:54 am
You’re missing the point I think Josh. My point was that Christian culture constantly tries to copy secular culture. It’s almost as if they lack the power of imagination to do something original. So in this instance, rather than take a good idea and make it their own, they have simply ripped off the YouTube style (including some blatently stolen graphics) and the slogan showing a staggering lack of originality and creativity.
As you rightly point out, mainstream culture rips good ideas off, but not often with the same uninspired lack of imagination. The porn industry created their own version of YouTube unsurprisingly. But X-Tube has its own style which is not in anyway confusing or passing itself off as YouTube.
Oh and hey Animesh, thanks for the compliment. I’m 36 years old! :-)
Wrote the following comment on May 31, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Well you look like 26!
BTW, at 36 you are exactly my double!
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 12:53 am
Speaking of creativity…
Did you know that alot of pastors simply download sermons and re-preach them? They tell stories as if they happened to them or their family?
All the while giving no credit to the original authors?
Seriously, go to a vast majority of start-up churches and you will simply find someone with charisma re-preaching sermons one day a week for a six-figure salary…
That is why we are called sheep by the Almighty…
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 4:46 am
Hey Simon,
If you want some more examples of the Christian sub-culture demonstrating a lack of originality, check-out what the Christian retailers sell for t-shirts. Silly, if you ask me…and I oughta know…I used to sell them!
(yeah…it’s melissa)
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 5:08 am
Michael, your “parting shot” is actually pretty offensive. the reason why Christians [such as myself] are referred to as sheep being led by our Shepherd [Christ] is because God understands that we don’t have any innate sense of spiritual truth. humans have always sought out something to worship-many of the earliest relics of civilization are idols/figures of gods/godesses-but we aren’t just born knowing right from wrong, as any parent will tell you. we have to be trained. we flatter ourselves by thinking that we’re somehow spiritually qualified to lead ourselves, when what we really need is the Lord’s gentle leadership.
obviously, simply downloading a sermon from some mega-church or something isn’t a good thing. the pastor should preach about what the Lord lays on his heart through prayer/searching the Scriptures. i’m not sure how common sermon downloading is, but i wouldn’t be surprised if it happened often. i think that’s clearly not a good thing to do exclusively. i mean, occasionally preaching a famous sermon that was originally given by a real man of God is OK, but only as long as he tells people that’s what he’s doing. 1 Timothy 3:1-13 has a great description of the kind of man that God wants to lead churches. i’ve been blessed to find a fellowship here in Indiana where the pastor’s messages consist of more than jokes and stories, and are really edifying.
anyway, don’t just cast Christians as mostly just stupid people being led around by the nose by unfaithful pastors. that kind of thing does happen, but most pastors that i’ve met have a genuine heart for the Lord and for ministering to all people.
judging all Christians by what makes it through the filter of the media most often[i.e. the meltdowns, scandals, etc…] is the same as judging all Muslims by the actions of a few terrorists. In other words, it’s just too easy, and it isn’t right. I’ve know many very decent Muslims here at school, just like i know many decent Christians. I’ve met a few “crazies” on both sides, obviously, but they’ve thankfully been few and far between.
if you’ve read to this point, i appreciate it.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Two thoughts:
First, about the start-up churches and the downloading of sermons….heh heh. Yeah, one way to piss people off and get a bunch of people in an argument is to make asinine over-generalizations like that one. As a pastor of one of those “start up churches” (actually more appropriately called church plants) and in a community with at least a down other pastors of such plants, I don’t know any of them who do what you describe, however, I DO know of people who do steal sermons word for word, line for line, story for story. I grew up in one such church and for the first 17 years of my life heard that stuff year after year. It was about the most traditional Baptist church you can imagine.
However, that’s not the worst thing in the world that could happen. Other than the supposedly “real” stories that are passed on as their own, most liturgical churches actually preach out of the same exact books year after year and they call them homilies. It’s a fairly western, individualistic self-centered culture to think that we each have to come up with something on our own to contribute to the Word of God. Much like our aversion to common prayers, we like to think that we’re all so original to begin with but we really aren’t. The Church universal is not so unique. One only has to listen to Pop Radio to realize that we’re not the only ones on the planet who lack originality. Pop Radio sucks as much as Christian music mostly. The worst part of Christian music is that we’re not only copy cats, but that we copy crap to begin with.
But the idea that “a vast majority of start up churches” simply re-preaches sermons from other churches is not only wrong but simply a mis-characterization of the POINT of many of those plants.
Besides….where in the world do these new church plants come up with 6 figure salaries? Yeah, I don’t know anyone like that either.most of us are doing good just to keep a roof over our heads.
Yeah, thanks for the words of encouragement man.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Yeah, I got so sidetracked by making my first point, I don’t even care to go on to point 2 now….but I will make it shortly.
If someone’s Life Group is their insulated activity from the outside world then their lifegoup pastor ought to know this group needs to be shut down. It’s not doing what it should do. It’s sick and will implode if not attended to.
These groups are not for insulation but for reaching to those outside our community of faith.
Earlier this week I read a spot of Martin Luther who said:
“The Kingdom of God is to be in the midst of your enemies. And he who will not suffer this does not want to be of the Kingdom of Christ; he wants to be among friends, to sit among roses and lilies, not with the bad people but the devout people. O you blasphemers and betrayers of Christ! If Christ had done what you are doing who would ever have been spared?”
Not that I like his depiction of those outside the community of faith as “enemies”, but I think his evaluation of basic Christian culture (even 500 years ago!) is simply true: we prefer our insulation over our life in the real world – our attempt to be “in the world” is mostly hiding from it…never really embracing it (remember- the Earth is the Lord’s and EVERYTHING in it – Psalm 24:1/1 Corinthians 10:26).
Sad but true.
Sorry, I can’t spend much more time on here giving minisermons like this…I have to go download one for Sunday…..
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 2:15 pm
awesome Luther quote! i’ll have to add that to my [growing] list of favorite quotes.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Wow!!! What great dialogue has been generated by this issue. Simon, you picked a good one this time.
My first reaction to God Tube was much like many others who commented. I felt a strong sense of lament over the lack of originality on the part of Christians who merely emulate the culture instead of seeking to transform it. I am sure that those who produce these products feel that they are offering something that is transforming because they are offering a “positive†alternative. My feeling, however, is that this approach, though it may have its place, does not get at the roots, does not go deep enough, to really offer something that is truly transformational. I realize that this assertion could use some elaboration, but I am going to forgo that for now, as I honestly don’t have a clear rationale for this critique at the moment.
After my initial reaction, and after continuing to read others’ comments, however, I was particularly struck by KittyKox’s comment. First, because she took a stand against the way the current had been flowing up to that point, and secondly, because I thought that she made a good point, which, if I may paraphrase, is that sometimes Xians just want a safe haven from all of the crap that is out there. As she pointed out, it would be wrong if all Xians did was wall themselves within their own cultural ghettoes. As she stated, Xians need to engage the world, and I affirm her in this, however, a potential problem that I see is that Xians will be tempted to think that they are engaging the world by participating in these “unoriginal†alternate forms, and will thereby be lulled into irrelevancy. I think that what must be clear is that these are havens, not areas of cultural engagement, and that after visiting these places, there is still a need to “get back out thereâ€, so to speak. Along, with this, there is an underlying theology of culture that needs to be looked at, but again, for the purposes of responding to a blog, I am not going to get into that here. I will, however, make this brief assertion that Xians get it wrong when they think that just because something has the brand of “Christian†that it is necessarily good, or good for them. Tying back to the plaint against “unoriginalityâ€, though a lot of Christian products aren’t obviously morally objectionable, they are often trite and shallow and thereby encourage an easily digestible approach to matters that are inherently profound. This, in some measure, promotes a lie, because it misrepresents the nature of faith, as well as The Faith.
In continuing my response, I also want to affirm Shae, and take his comment about Western culture being individualistic and self-centered, and add to it that the West, particularly in the Modern era, has placed great stock in the idea of human autonomy, out of which comes the lauding of originality as the mark of genius. In response to this however, I am reminded of the words of Sir Isaac Newton, who said, “If I have seen farther than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.†In this statement he tacitly expressed the nature of human interdependence. We are creatures that are profoundly influenced, and thus, what often constitutes originality is really a synthesis of preexisting forms or ideas. I personally think that synthesis (a joining together) is a good thing, at times great, but what makes it so is its effect on culture, or the world. Thus, my criticism in relation to God Tube, is expressed by the question, “what kind of effect is God Tube going to have on the culture at large?†My guess is, not much. However, if it only aspires to offer a safe haven for Christians, and Christians understand that it is not a venue for genuine cultural engagement and transformation, then it is fine. Otherwise, it is potentially insidious.
Dang, my mind is firing a whole bunch of synaptic connections as I think about all of the stuff that God Tube and the underlying issue of originality raises. I mean this touches upon questions regarding human nature in general, and more specifically questions about epistemology (how we know what we know), teleology (what is our purpose), ecclesiology (what is the Church, what is its purpose), and if I thought about it some more, I am sure other connections would come. But, as I have been quite verbose already, I will take what I could continue to say in response to God Tube, and particularly the issue of originality, and perhaps I will save it for a post on my own blog. And now, I will graciously (if it’s not too late) bring my comment to and end.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 8:33 pm
My thought today is the idea of creativity versus the media. As I think about it, maybe Christians don’t lack the creativity. Maybe it’s a lack of marketing. And then the marketing from the media of the few who do lack creativity.
But is the issue creativity, as Simon brought up, or is it the fact that Christians contiue to create sub-culture and are not engaging the world around them?
Short and sweet today.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 12:47 am
I heard about God tube a few months ago and thought then that it was a really bad idea. With God being the Creator, you’d think his people would be a lot more creative than merely copying what others have done first, but that seems to be a pattern. Sadly, in God Tube’s case, it’s a really poor copy.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 1, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Some good comments there. I think Michael’s response was interesting and, as is his style, rather sweeping in it’s assumptions. I very much doubt that there are many pastors of start-up churches earning six figure salaries, and as for preaching copy-cat sermons, again I think that this would be something of a rarity in the grand scale of things.
I think that in reality there are very few really original ideas out there. As I mentioned before, the YouTube model has been copied several times already in the mainstream. However, it’s the blatant ‘passing off’ that GodTube chose to engage in which surprised and disappoints me.
I sometimes feel that Christians and the broader Christian community, heavily censor themselves in public when they represent their faith. I get the feeling that on occasions, those who might otherwise be capable of stepping out and doing something original, are reigned in by those who don’t want to be seen as “worldly.”
Yet so often they emulate something “worldly” but choose to instead “Christianize” it. Which often equates to simply making it shit, not realizing that the only people likely to choose the Christian ‘knock-off’ over the real thing are fellow Christians.
I think that it’s hard for people who have lived within the boundaries of Christian culture to understand why something like GodTube just seems utterly bogus to the wider world.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:07 am
Hey Simon,
I don’t like pop-style music which is what most Christian music really is. Pop music is a knock off of it self which is pretty lame ha! Actually most Christian labels are owned by larger secular labels, so it’s the secular label that actually chooses who they pick and distribute. So a lot of the time it’s not Christians spending tones of money but Warner Brothers, Sony, Columbia and other large labels. It’s more about demographics. At first I suspected the same thing with GodTube because it looks so much like youtube but I think it’s just a knock off. I don’t know if that’s bad or not. I think it has it’s place. As an illustrator I knock off plenty of ideas and try to twist them to what I want to say or depict. Most of my work isn’t “Christian” like pop music, but some pieces are pretty obvious.
I recently went to a Christian store that knock offs of t-shirts. “No Fear” instead of “Fear” Sonkissed instead of Sunkist. In some ways it gives me the chills just seeing how corny it is, but I think there’s a purpose for it. I guess I wonder how good are a lot of original ideas any way. Some people think it’s clever to slightly change something in order to change it’s meaning entirely and they pay money for it. I guess over all I don’t see anything wrong with having a Christian version of something. I do think it’s better to be creative though. You have to remember that stuff like this isn’t necessarily geared towards adults. It’s for pre-teens ands teenagers. Not the most independent crowd on earth. They all dress the same and look the same and say the same things and try not to have zits and all that stuff. I prefer to see things that are more creative, Christian or non-Christian, but would I want my 10-14 year old son searching around YouTube or GodTube. Probably GodTube until he’s a bit older and has more adult discernment. I think a lot of it is because many Christians want a similar alternative and that’s where the money is. That’s not a bad thing; it is not a creative thing either though.
There is a danger of Christians being out of touch with what’s going on, and sheltered. I don’t, in reality, see many that are though. People when they first meet me think I’m sheltered just because I don’t swear, but that’s not really the case.
The biggest knock off of all though I would say is the Bible. Look at parts of the Matrix, or any horror movie, greeting cards, country music, even death metal. I think it goes both ways a bit. I don’t think Christians knock things off as artfully though in general.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:15 am
@Jeff:
“Michael, your “parting shot†is actually pretty offensive. the reason why Christians [such as myself] are referred to as sheep being led by our Shepherd [Christ] is because God understands that we don’t have any innate sense of spiritual truth.”
While you are of course correct with regards to Christ being our sheperd, heep are dumb. I am a Christian and can in fact attest to this.
“i’m not sure how common sermon downloading is, but i wouldn’t be surprised if it happened often.”
It is very prevalent. Just do a google on “purchase sermons”.
“anyway, don’t just cast Christians as mostly just stupid people being led around by the nose by unfaithful pastors. that kind of thing does happen, but most pastors that i’ve met have a genuine heart for the Lord and for ministering to all people.”
I’m not so sure anymore. I went to a church for 2 years before I realized something was amiss. The very week we left, I saw a billboard of another pastor preaching on a series that my previous pastor spoke on!
I don’t care so much about using alot of previous material, but simply regirgitating it and giving NO CREDIT, is incredibly misleading.
“judging all Christians”
Romans 2 is very clear on this, but I am not passing judgement, just shedding light on the subject of creativity…
“First, about the start-up churches and the downloading of sermons….heh heh. Yeah, one way to piss people off and get a bunch of people in an argument is to make asinine over-generalizations like that one. As a pastor of one of those “start up churches†(actually more appropriately called church plants) and in a community with at least a down other pastors of such plants, I don’t know any of them who do what you describe”
I’ll take that challenge. Could you please post the website (I know you have one) of yours and your community pastors? I will listen to some sermons and see if you are indeed giving credit where credit is due…
“However, that’s not the worst thing in the world that could happen.”
Wrong. You see, pastors are in a special place and are upheld by their flock to a high standard. Have you heard of stories where women actually fall in love with their pastors? I believe pastors are afraid that they will be seen as weak or undeserving if they reference another’s work…
“Other than the supposedly “real†stories that are passed on as their own, most liturgical churches actually preach out of the same exact books year after year and they call them homilies.”
I don’t have a problem with re-using sermons or using others sermons, but there is one story where some pastor was in France or something, and he was at a church where a pastor repreached a sermon he wrote!
How ironic that there are downloadable sermons on how little white lies can cause so much pain…
“It’s a fairly western, individualistic self-centered culture to think that we each have to come up with something on our own to contribute to the Word of God.”
That is the entirely wrong attitude to have as a pastor. God does not need you to contribute anything. The whole reason downloading sermons is such a clever tactic by the evil one is that you no longer rely on the Holy Spirit!
“But the idea that “a vast majority of start up churches†simply re-preaches sermons from other churches is not only wrong but simply a mis-characterization of the POINT of many of those plants.”
I believe this is far more prevalent then you let on. When I was growing up, there were very FEW church plants, now they are all over the place! Why? Because anyone with a amicable character can download a sermon…
“Besides….where in the world do these new church plants come up with 6 figure salaries?”
You are sponsored by other churches, are you not?
Yeah, I don’t know anyone like that either.most of us are doing good just to keep a roof over our heads.
“Yeah, thanks for the words of encouragement man.”
Iron sharpens iron. The days of freeloading, sermon downloading pastors is over.
And, I’ll be waiting for those websites and links to your sermons ;)…
@Simon:
“Some good comments there. I think Michael’s response was interesting and, as is his style, rather sweeping in it’s assumptions. I very much doubt that there are many pastors of start-up churches earning six figure salaries, and as for preaching copy-cat sermons, again I think that this would be something of a rarity in the grand scale of things.”
I to thought this was isolated…
Just do me one favor Simon, go to google.com and type in something like “download sermon” or “purchase sermon” or something along those lines.
You will be flabbergasted by the amount of companies selling sermons.
Then, find some churches who put their pastor’s sermons online. Wait for a pretty nice sounding section and type that into google.
I can almost guarantee it was lifted from somewhere.
Good bet from here: https://www.sermoncentral.com
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:24 am
@shae:
I’ll take your challenge. Why don’t you give us the link to your church website and to your sermons.
While you are at it, why don’t you give us the links to your other local church websites and sermons.
Everyone, go check out sermoncentral.com. It will open your eyes to how church ‘planting’ is now no more than a business.
And, for the record, I am a Christian. I have attended a church where the pastor lifted EVERY SINGLE SERMON from the web.
All the while struggling to even get to church on time on Sunday morning or re-write sermon notes (we were in a school at the time).
I am not upset at anyone but myself for believing pastors to be anything more than human. Sadly it’s in our nature…
(I posted earlier, but I don’t see it, so if this shows up somehow after it, I’m sorry about that)
[Simon’s note – Sorry Michael. This comment got flagged as spam and held off from appearing because of that. I didn’t notice it until today, Sunday. My apologies.)
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 3:40 am
Michael-
You have way too much time on your hands, my friend. My website is easy to find.
Just a little clicky away.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 4:25 am
https://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=3195
“Don’t be original—be effective!” urges Steve Sjogren of the Cincinnati Vineyard Community Church…
Tell me, do all Vineyard churches believe pulpit plagiarism is ok?
Do you have any actual recordings of your sermons?
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 5:29 am
Bob, i think that you touched on a point that really needs more discussion… but i think i need clarification on exactly what you think the purpose of t-shirt slogans, Godtube, etc. is..I got an idea of it from your comment but am still a little unsure as to what you meant…
On another much more minor note, you mentioned that tshirt slogans etc. that are rewritten in Christianese were geared towards pre-teen/ teenagers- not the most independent crowd who all dress alike and try to avoid zits etc. Well, i just really need to say that I think there’s actually more diversity between teen peer groups then any other group in any other time of life. Teens are trying to find their identity and experiment a lot more then you or i. They can be skaters, punk, goth, emo, valley, prep, geek, ddr fanatic, beatbox master, etc. and change their overall image pretty quickly if they need to. As adults, i dont think we have nearly as many options.. and we certainly cant change them as quickly as we could in high school. I know it was a minor point.. but i could hardly resist saying something on it.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 7:38 am
OK Simon, this just came in from Saint Pete. If you want to avoid purgatory, you have to bring balance back into the universe. Thus, you need to find some good, cool and/or original things that Xians are doing and bear witness to it either in video or blog form. Yeah, this might be the biggest challenge of your life, but isn’t the well being of your soul worth it? By the way, if you fail in this mission, I heard (mind you it’s just a rumor) that your spot in purgatory will be to scrub Satan’s toilets after he throws a raging kegger. So, you might want to dig deep and find the resolve to see this one through. (And no, you can’t wear a nose clip while scrubbing, it is supposed to be a punishment after all.)
:-)
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Bob – You know I am not sure that GodTube is aimed at 14 year olds. Chances are the ‘creators’ of GodTube felt that, like YouTube, that would end up being the largest age group that use the site. However, if you take even the briefest gander at what the site offers you’ll see that it is mostly stuff that an older age range would appreciate. It’s more like ‘ChristianParentTube’ really.
Doubtless the ‘creators’ of God tube would argue that the site is in its infancy and that it’s popularity is growing. But it’s unlikely that teenagers will start using the site on mass. Why? Because GodTube is just NOT cool. It’s as simple as that.
Christian parents will no doubt like the site and maybe even use it. Some youth pastors might lap up its resources, and church websites might find it useful for streaming videos on their own website (heck, it IS useful for that!). But when you (as a teenager) have just taken a video clip on your phone of your mate spinning around in a tumble drier, or doing the diet coke/mentos thing, you want to get as many comments and coverage as possible. That’s not GodTube, its YouTube.
“Go check out my videos on GodTube” isn’t about to become something you’ll be hearing a lot of 14 year olds saying at School.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Michael – Okay, as I mentioned earlier, I think that the issue of stealing sermons (not really the issue I raised in my post, but I’ll go with it here for a moment) is really a very small one. I would imagine that if one was to collect all of the sermons preached in churches across the world this Sunday only the tiniest percentage would be a word for word rip-off of another sermon.
Now, while it’s fair for you to raise the point, I don’t think it’s fair of you to pick on Shae and demand that he justify himself to you. Shae owes you no such justification. If you want to prove thatt he is stealing sermons then you’ll have to listen to him preach then do all the behind the scenes investigating legwork for yourself. Though I have absolutely no doubt that you won’t find he has ripped off anyone.
There will always be Pastors who are lazy of just flat out frauds. But it’s not something that I believe is anywhere near as much of an issue as you might think. Of course the exceptions are out there, but you need to get the problem into some perspective. Perhaps a visit to Shae’s new church in Houston would be a good place to start?
Your own experience sounds unfortunate. A good topic for you own blog maybe?
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 2:27 pm
I thought this was about creativity? And the lack of it when it comes to Christian culture? Certainly plagiarizing a sermon is more important than spoofing YouTube!?
As to Shae justifying himself, he said he did not plagiarize. I did not accuse him of anything, I just asked for some sermons.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 2, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Michael- so why exactly did you ask for Shae’s sermons? Your own personal edification? Come on… Be real.
also the big difference between plagarizing sermons and godtube, is that one is copying within the culture (and often times with permission) and the other is copying from outside the culture in an effort to make what was perceived as unacceptable, acceptable. It’s a big difference.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 12:41 am
Michael, this post was more about why Christian culture seeks to set itself apart from mainstream culture, but at the same time it seems to go out of its way to emulate it and copy it wherever it can.
You don’t need Shae’s sermons, and frankly why the heck should he even pander to such a request? I think that you have the problem of plagiarizing sermons completely out of perspective, but as I said, that’s not what this post was about so lets get back on topic, okay?
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 3:34 am
Simon,
I am posting this primarily to help you break the 40 mark regarding the number of comments you received in response to a post. That would be a record, would it not?
Anyways, to give some content, I thought I would add a little more to what I was saying about things like God Tube not being transformational in its effect on culture. In watching your video on God Tube, you said that they stated that their purpose was to have an impact on the culture around them, and then you pointed out the irony that this was not likely since mostly Xians will be giving patronage to the site. I like that insight and I want to add to it that when Xians embrace new mediums to reach out to culture, they don’t seem to consider that mediums (or media) are not inert tools that simply carry the messages that we want them to convey.
Instead, what I see is that any kind of media that we use actually influences and shapes (or misshapes) the content that we try to communicate through it. To be more specific, I think that it is one thing for me to bear witness to Christ in a face to face relationship and potentially quite another thing to do so on the things like God Tube. In making this assertion, I am not saying that such mediums can’t be used for the purposes of ministry, rather that there appears to be an uncritical embracing and employment of the next big thing in the hopes of “winning more for Christ”. My fear is that people responding to these kind of mediums (if they respond at all) are really only making shallow decisions in response to shallow messages, messages which have been rendered shallow because the medium that carries it, by its very nature, doesn’t have the capacity to communicate depth.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 3:39 am
Oh by the way, my last critique of God Tube was deeply influenced by Neil Postman who was influenced by Marshall McLuhan. So, I guess I am not very original. :-)
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 8:01 am
Great rant, you may be over-analyzing GodTube. You forget that the majority of christians are isolationists in their JesusBubble. So having a separate place is majorly appealing, lest they be confronted with reality. That crazy lady yelling about gargoyles is from our home state (mine and Marzish’s (Louisiana)). So we claim her.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 11:40 am
First off I want to direct anyone still reading this comment thread to comment number 28. This was a comment made by Michael Newcomb that was held back as ‘spam’ until today when I noticed it. (Sorry Michael).
I did indeed do a google search as Michael suggested and found sites that sold, or often times gave away for no charge, sermons. Now, I’ve already said that I don’t really wish this thread of comments to become focused on this issue as it isn’t really related to the ripping off of sites like GodTube, but I will just say this; Sermoncentral.com looked to me to be a (perhaps handy) resource for pastors in the same way that teachers in schools often reuse one anothers work in teaching.
Michael’s concerns about pastors copying other pastors is not unfounded. However I think that Michael’s perception of the issue is somewhat warped when he cites sermon sharing/selling sites. There are very few pastors making 6 figure incomes in the grand scheme of things, and my suggestion to Michael is that perhaps he needs to look at a much much smaller church that isn’t about entertaining ‘good people’ on Sunday morning (like Joel Osteen in Houston or World Changers Ministries run by the aptly named Rev. Dollar) My advise is avoid the so-called mega-churches at all costs.
At this risk of getting bogged down in the side issue I will add that I think Michael sees a pastor in the same sense he sees an author or journalist. In those lines of work the focus is on producing an original work, whereas coming up with a sermon is only one part of a pastors role. (I don’t attend church so I am open to correction here.) The role of a pastor is not simply to produce a Sunday sermon, and on the whole I think that most pastors take their role in their community a lot more serious than just that.
I’ve not managed to express what I feel about the ‘unoriginal sin’ very well. But I feel that sometimes Christians try way to hard to appear different to everyone else. They get wrapped up in the Bible verse “Avoid the appearance of evil” which, when cherry picked like that on it’s own, sounds like a mandate for simply not looking like you’re doing something wrong. The problem with going to lengths to make themselves seem so very different to the rest of us, is that when the rest of us find out they’re just the same the disappointment can overpower the original message.
GodTube will become a site used by Christians with material provided by Christians. It will never be YouTube because I think that in their desperate attempts to “avoid the appearance of evil” they will censor a lot of the fun stuff that made YouTube worth the vast sum of money Google purchased it for.
My annoyance with Christians ripping-off things like YouTube and Myspace (yet there are a few Christian myspace rip-offs) is that they are not creating an engaging environment that reaches into the wider world. Instead they are simply re-hashing a second rate safe haven for people who long for the spoils of the real world but are too afraid or too isolationist to venture from what Tim called ‘their JesusBubble’.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 11:21 am
Anthony, thanks for your comment number boost, though we still have a ways to go to break the record on comments. Mt post last year about Irish phone prankster ‘Little Becky‘ has 94 comments and still gets comments now. And thanks to Michael’s help, my ‘Where is the war on gun crime‘ post got 53 comments. Before that ‘God hates a fag‘ got 39 comments, and way back ‘Flat-pack fellowship‘ got 51 comments. But this has undoubtedly been one of the most discussed posts I’ve made. (And I, of course, thank you all for your contributions.)
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 3:06 pm
DANG!! (Xian substitute for the word “Damn”) Did you say 94 comments?!?
Wrote the following comment on Jun 3, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Talking of YouTube, a beautiful little parody of someone trying to prove that Vista didn’t rip off OSX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM&mode=related&search=
Wrote the following comment on Jun 4, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Sure wish my connection was fast enough to watch this stuff. Unfortunately, the fruit bat that powers the Internet on my island tends to tipple the fermented mangos.
Without the advantage of actually being able to see the vids, I still have to wonder: If Jesus were alive today, would he choose MySpace or Facebook, and how much time would he spend online?
Wrote the following comment on Jun 5, 2007 at 1:03 pm
That banana video is insanely funny! I so wish I was brave enough to do a rip-off of it called “Blowjobs : an atheist’s nightmare” replacing the banana with something youre never likely to see on godtube! LOL!!!
Im laughing to myself at the thought of it. “Its made with a non slip surface…” “Its just the right shape for the human mouth…” “And its even curved toward the face to make the whole process more easier..” LOL!! Hmm, not sure that the line about its contents not squirting could apply though? LOL!!!
Wrote the following comment on Jun 6, 2007 at 12:43 am
Pam, let me know if you need any help making the rip-off video :-D
Wrote the following comment on Jun 6, 2007 at 4:16 pm
This is the kind of stuff that give Christians a bad name (not that we need any help). We need less “christian” media/music/culture and more holy daddys and mommies if we truly want to have a good influence.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 13, 2007 at 4:32 pm
I’ve read through your post, watched your video clip, read the responses, and have seen a lot of criticism – some of which I agree with. But has anyone tried to answer your question, “Are Christians unoriginal?†Have you tried to find answers?
First, I do not believe God tube will or can accomplish its mission to engage culture in its entirety, and if anyone is trying, they are only preaching to choir. It’s no wonder many Christian bands don’t succeed if their message is intended for non-Christians but their audience is Christian – their message has no relevance.
Second, your choice of clips to highlight God tube is probably biased and not representative due to your personal beliefs and attempt to criticize the site. There is other content that is good. However, the clips you chose (at least the first two) could be seen as attempts to accomplish the mission of the site to engage others or non-Christians within the culture. If that is the case, then they fall short… way short… they are more like jokes. In fact, your post reminds me of something like a Jerry Springer or Howard Stern show. .. shock value and perhaps not much more.
I hope you are not limiting your assessment of the creativity and originality of Christians to the mainstream “Christian†label media such as God tube and the Christian music industry. You asked a fair question and I will attempt an answer.
I have seen the originality of Christians in examples such as the songs and music written by friends such as Chad and Shae. Not to mention the thoughtful and unique sermons that I have heard from Shae. Many Christians use their creative abilities within our broader culture through their jobs or creative outlets that are not part of the mainstream Christian media that receives so much criticism and reaches only Christians. I have seen originality in the work of another friend who had her own event planning and destination service company in Houston that put on numerous creative and successful events for major companies and their employees.
I have heard and seen the originality of Christians in bands such as King’s X and The White Stripes (King’s X might be debatable today)… no one claims they “sound like†any other band in the same way that U2 is very distinguishable.
Someone who was within the mainstream “Christian†music scene that I really admire was Steve Taylor (check out https://www.sockheaven.net/). He understood who his audience was. Many of his messages (songs) were geared towards Christians and often very critical of the church and Christians. I’m sure he received his fair share of flak for some of the things he said since it seems it is not a good thing to criticize the church despite the amount of criticism of the church in the New Testament. He poked fun at the attempt of Christians to isolate themselves by only drinking “milk from a Christian cow†(this was a 1984 song). I don’t know if you’re familiar with him, but I think you might like him. I think this goes hand-in-hand with David’s post about the poor use of the word Christian as an adjective.
And then there are writers like John Updike, C.S. Lewis, and J.R.R. Tolkien to name a few.
I can list any number of criticisms of the lack of originality within mainstream secular music, Hollywood, and the business world, but I won’t since that is not what you’re asking. Google has become a giant, but it was not first search engine – before Google, there was, and still is, Webcrawler, Yahoo, and Lycos. Mainstream is not about originality but about selling what is easy to sell… secular or religious – like all the movies that are rip-offs of Alfred Hitchcock’s work.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 13, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Wow, now that’s what I call a response William! :-)
Okay, let me address some of what you said…
“Your choice of clips to highlight God tube is probably biased and not representative due to your personal beliefs and attempt to criticize the site.”
The two clips I chose were on the front page of the site the day I wrote this post. They are in my opinion fairly representative of the garbage that can be found of the site, and most of the site is indeed garbage. I am sure if I was to look harder and closer there would indeed be some interesting well put together clips. But go check the site for yourself (before suggesting I cherry picked bad examples) and see for yourself. I absolutely assure you, the clips are chose are there in all seriousness and are not jokes!
My criticism is aimed fairly and squarely at Christian culture and the way it tries hard to mimic the world while standing three paces away from it. I feel that Christians who seek out alternative to mainstream stuff such as myspace, youtube, are missing the point entirely and in isolating themselves they are, as I see it, not engaging in the act of ‘making disciples of all men.’
I did acknowledge that great ideas are often copied in the real world too. (I mentioned X-tube as an example) But Christianity seems to go out of its way to look or sound just like the thing it’s copying, and in that blatant rip-off they lack originality in the poorest of ways.
Your example of Google not being original is actually a good one for me to. Yes Google wasn’t the first search engine, but it took the idea and created something that was in itself entirely original.
The Google logo and the simple page were unique back then. All other search engines were trying hard to tell you everything you could ever want to know about right now the moment their slow loading fat with ads sites loaded. Google cut this down and created a simple fast loading page. People liked that because it was different and original. Yes it was a search engine like others, but it was an evolution of an idea, not a copy and not a flat out rip off.
You know, if Christians could create a ‘Godle’ alternative to Google, a site that sought out, spidered, and listed ONLY Christian sites, then as awful as it would be I would have to be impressed at the technical achievement that would be :-)
Now, if you’ll excuse me I have to get back to my Christian aerobic workout as per a video on the front page of Godtube today.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 13, 2007 at 7:21 pm
I did not mean to imply that the clips were jokes or created as jokes, but that they were “jokes” as in bad examples, poor arguments… and well just painful and embarassing. I must concede and agree with you that most of the stuff on the site is just junk and it’s an embarassment. I came to too quick a conclusion about the site and cannot bear to wade through it to find decent examples. It’s safe to say you did not cherry-pick.
I thank you for your post. Christians need to be critical of this kind of stuff. My only concern about your post was that you seem to lump all Christians and the church into your conclusions and fail to see or look for examples contrary to your conclusions. But you have to get away from the mainstream to find originality and creativity… and that will never be as popular or visible – otherwise it would be the mainstream.
I think the phrase “Christian culture” should not exist, but now days everyone wants to make a culture out of everything. That’s a whole other discussion, though.
Did you enjoy your workout with the fantastic “Christian” knock-off version of Richard Simmons? :) “My praise is just so funky!”
Wrote the following comment on Jun 13, 2007 at 7:41 pm
You know it’s hard to be specific when you write anything like this. I criticized the way that ‘Christian culture’ rips stuff off. Of course I understand there are many exceptions, but to list them all would detract from the point.
As for your not liking the term ‘Christian culture’ I would only say that the word exists because the culture exists. Christian TV, Christian music, Christian Xanga and Myspace, Christian YouTube, etc etc. All products and services geared exclusively toward a massive ‘Christian’ market that makes up a huge part of what Christian culture. In truth the term should be changed to ‘Christian isolation’, but I doubt those who “only drink Christian milk” would be happy with that somehow.
As for my ‘Christian work out’. I’ve decided to extend the popular Christian environmental thinking to my body. Forget about looking after myself! This body will be replaced with a new one anyway so why bother pandering to a worldly view huh! It’s burgers, fries, soda and ice cream for me now every day! Whoohoo!
Wrote the following comment on Jun 14, 2007 at 2:30 am
Well, I see you like to criticize Christians and the church. Does that mean it affects your perceptions of God? I really don’t know you and I’m not sure what your religious views are, but many people have become disillusioned with the church and lost faith and walked away from God in the process. If you’re disappointed in people, then your issues are with people, not with God. I’m not trying make assumptions about what you believe. This is coming more out of what I have seen happen to other people. I just wouldn’t want the mistake to be made of placing faith in the church and in people rather than in God, and then discounting God because of what people have done that are out of line with God and His word.
The history of the church is full of wrong choices and decisions and this goes back to the beginning… well of the first people. Many things have happened in the name of God that were not of God.
I do agree with your criticisms of the church and Christians. However, those criticisms are with supposed followers of Christ and not Christ himself. There may be no point in me saying this to you, but I believe there are at least others out there that should hear it.
I feel that many in our culture have forgotten the responsibilities that God gave us in Genesis. I have been shocked to hear statements pretty much in line with what you said about not caring for the environment because all is lost and going to be replaced anyway.
I belive God gave us all a responsibility and power to take care of His creation and that we really have let the ball drop on this.
I believe this was illustrated in way in Jesus’ parable of the talents. People may only interpret this to apply only to spiritual or physical gifts or financial matters… but then again, this world was a gift.
If someone gave me van Gogh’s Starry Night to take care of, it would be horrible if I used it as a place-mat on my table or turned the canvas around to make a garage sale sign. Yet, what are we doing to care for the very creation of God, including ourselves?
You said “why bother pandering to a worldly view”. I say it’s a Godly view, maybe not a popular “Christian” view, but one that God intended in Genesis.
Wrote the following comment on Jun 29, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Answer
https://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=c5a412816d494b15ca9f
Wrote the following comment on Jul 1, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Seems that the above person who commented with that link either is too afraid or too ashamed to put their name to posting a GodTube link, I can understand that I suppose. It’s certainly not an answer for sure.
Wrote the following comment on Jul 19, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I was sniggering like a schoolboy with that whole banana thing! Lol
Wrote the following comment on Jun 29, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I agree to the extent that so far I can’t recall absolutely anything that christians have done that is inovative, trendy and catchy. It really is the truth that christians are always a step behind secular movements. As to this knock-off website, you make total sense in what you’re saying. Why copy instead of creating something new? But at the same time, how do you know we’re not on You Tube. I’m there. I guess this God Tube place is cool ’cause in a world of soccer lovers, there should always be a place for footbal lovers to hang out as well… And to each one his own. Good thinking, good stuff.
I’ve caught myself as a musician thinking many times why am I playing a rhythym that already exists? Why can’t God give me a new beat? It seems like the “devil” has inspired a lot more people within the last 90 years. We’ll see. I’m open to something new. Who knows? I might just be the frist christian to break from the pack…
Wrote the following comment on Sep 16, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Well I understand your question, however the Bible teaches that we (Christians), are to avoid the very apperance of evil. Now that would be IMPOSSIBLE to do on youtube wouldn’t it. So in order to obey that command we must not view the filth that is on you tube.
Wrote the following comment on Oct 22, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Thanks for articulating a thought that’s been circulating in my head for a while. It’s interesting to note that several videos on GodTube can also be found on YouTube. Unnecessarily redundant or increasing one’s viewing audience?
Hmmm…. Sometimes I wonder if believers unwittingly create a type of faith-based ghetto on the cultural landscape where we can hide away from environments that aren’t purely Christian (as opposed to using the existing platforms to share the gospel and engage meaningfully with others). There is a real danger of falling into a “comfort zone” that renders us ineffective (or worse, irrelevant).
As with many things in life, I think we all could use some BALANCE. I wouldn’t rely exclusively on Christian sources when choosing my music, videos, books, news, etc….but it’s nice to have that Christian perspective or sensitivity in the mix.
Are Christians unoriginal? I don’t think so…at least, we don’t have to be. This raises other aspects to your question: are we FREE to try new things and explore the full range of our creativity or are we hampered by man-made rules as to what can/ cannot be done or what’s deemed “appropriately Christian”?
Do we initiate or just follow? These additional questions relate to a personal struggle I have between differentiating between Christianity and “Churchianity” (aka, cultural Christianity). Let’s take rock n’ roll music, for example. There was a time it was denounced as “Satan’s music”. Nowadays, many Christian contemporary artists imitate that same style along with rap, electronica, country, R&B, etc. (without the offensive, morally questionable content of course). Christian music has finally caught up with modern times but sometimes it *gasp!* bores me because they all have that kind of slick, Nashville-based, adult contemporary production sound to them (i.e. they don’t take creative risks/experimentation to the hilt that secular artists do). They are following the musical lead set by other (read: non-Christian) artists. On the other hand, look at the history of black gospel music. This is an example of where the hope, joy and travails of the Christian faith journey are expounded in a stirring way.
Gospel music wasn’t created by secular artists (how could it?); it left a great imprint on the world–yes, especially rock music–without compromising its spiritual foundation. Do you see the contrast? I don’t mean to beat up CCM artists, by the way. Anyway…sorry for the rambling. Just had to share a few points as they came to mind. Oh, check out Hollywood Jesus–it’s a movie review site that examines spiritual themes in popular, present-day films. Its purpose is not to rate movies for “family friendliness”…it’s meant to provoke discussion and thoughtful reflection. Cool place open to EVERYONE, Christian and non-Christian alike. http://www.hollywoodjesus.com
Wrote the following comment on Nov 3, 2007 at 12:48 am
I’m just now seeing Shane’s post from 9-16 . . . so in regards . .. PLEASE! You didn’t really just say that. No posting your videos on YouTube would not be appearing of evil any more than posting your video on GodTube.
I’m not really sure if you know much about Jesus, Shane, but guess what . . he hung out with sinners. Was He appearing evil when He was there? No, He was in an area that he would make a difference. To borrow and old phrase .. “What Would Jesus Do” . . . He’d make an impact where He could do so best.
I think the funniest things being said about “Christian” bands is that they don’t take chances, they sound the same as “secular” bands, blah blah blah. My first question would be .. where do you listen to your “Christian” music? Evidently bands that are owned by secular “mother” companies. Find the indie bands, they make a difference. They sound different. They’re willing to take chances.
Then the question becomes, do you really not think “secular” bands sound the same as well?
That’s it for now . . if you read this far . . . i’m suprised anyway and thanks. just a few rants.
Wrote the following comment on Nov 3, 2007 at 12:58 am
The reason why Shane’s comment only appeared today is because I re-posted it from the video I originally posted on GodTube. I doubt Shane will ever read this site because it doesn’t have a cross and a picture of while ‘Malboro Man’ Jesus on it.
Wrote the following comment on Nov 16, 2007 at 5:17 am
In reply to “gary”:
I’ll admit that I haven’t considered Christian “indie” music…mainly because I didn’t know that it existed (promotion issues, I bet)! My comments are based on personal experience and observation (a very common one, I find). The chief sources for Christian music are:
1. the local church’s music ministry (either the church’s own praise team or a visiting soloist/band)
2. live performances at Christian events (e.g. concerts, prayer rallies, fundraisers, etc.)
3. whatever is available at Christian bookstores
And I would say that 99% of the material are either from major contemporary artists within the Christian scene or traditional gospel/hymns. If there are indie bands, I’d like to know WHERE they are (a list of artist names would be helpful too) and HOW I can access their music because they don’t get much representation anywhere (if at all). I don’t doubt their existence but it’s hard to know about them if they aren’t exposed.
And yes, you’re right…there are plenty of secular artists on the charts that, in my opinion, SUCK!! Corporate muzak is having a field day, I’m afraid. Nevertheless, I still find it easier to find a few gems among the trash. I can also name and/or discover secular indie bands a whole lot faster than Christian ones.
Wrote the following comment on Nov 16, 2007 at 12:28 pm
I agree with Gary in that Shane’s comment about how it is impossible to avoid the appearance of evil by posting on youtube is utterly and completely baseless. Shane rather shows himself up to be a bubble dweller, by that I mean someone whose life revolves and involves only the church and rubber stamped Christian things.
However I will say that while I think it’s a shame that there are religious people like Shane around, I’m not entirely surprised. He may be a thoroughly nice guy just following his honest intentions of heart, guided by what he believes his God is showing him.
The challenge to someone like that is to make them look at the impact of their life on a wider scale, and in that one can go to extremes. For example, while he wants to avoid the appearance of evil at all costs, does he see if he is associated with evil corporate practices in his actions as a consumer etc. How far does his religious conviction actually extend?
In all honesty I find the entire ethos of avoiding the appearance of evil absolutely offensive. How about putting that pointless practice to one side and avoiding ACTUAL evil!
Now, with regards to Christian Indie bands, well they are surely going to exist in the same places as secular indie bands surely?
Wrote the following comment on Nov 17, 2007 at 4:08 am
“Now, with regards to Christian Indie bands, well they are surely going to exist in the same places as secular indie bands surely?”
Ummm…under a rock? Ha ha ha!!! I’m kidding. OK, maybe I’m not…
On college campuses? In local pubs? In a neighbourhood garage? I think I’ll have a better chance of finding them on the Internet. Just give me names to Google!
Wrote the following comment on Nov 17, 2007 at 4:18 am
i don’t know your style of preferred music but here’s a start https://indieheaven.com. and just like any thing else. some are good, some are decent and some are not.
Wrote the following comment on Dec 2, 2007 at 6:01 am
Thanks for the link! :)