“A fundamentalist is a person who considers whether a fact is acceptable to their faith before they explore it, as opposed to a curious person who explores first and then considers whether of not they want to accept the ramifications.” – Seth Godin.
The above video reminded me of a Christian friend of mine who once described themselves as a ‘fundamentalist.’ They meant it not in the negative way we’ve come to interpret the word, but in a more literal sense of being a believer in the fundamental principle set forth by the Bible. However, like any fundamentalist, they were deeply suspicious of other interpretations or expressions of faith, especially it would seem, those who also called themselves ‘Christian.’ It’s attitudes like this that have repelled me from religion and driven me from wanting to spend even a moment in a church surrounded by people who might also be as openly closed minded.
I’m puzzled how anyone who believes in (any) God could be so narrow minded given that believing in the existence of something you cannot see or interact with physically is by it’s very nature an open minded thing to do. It seems to me that while mankind strives to find meaning and purpose on a spiritual level, religion strives to entangle those who are curious enough to seek.
I’m curious, but I don’t need an answer as much as I need the curiosity that drives me to question. This, it would seem, puts me at odds with religion.
Religion is methodology with a brand name. It’s politics of the heavens, where rules control the curious and answers control the questions. Just as there are numerous distractions to prevent us from seeking a spiritual experience, so to are there distractions within that experience itself.
My fundamentalist friend had honorable intentions; to seek the purity of God without the distractions of debate. But I think perhaps the fundamentalists, be them Muslim, Christian or whatever, have missed the point. They’ve become spiritual prefects entangled in the traps and traditions of method and ceremony when surely it’s not the rules that are important, but the search itself?
I’m still curious, and if God is out there, then I sincerely hope he’s not a religious man.
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In God’s house
Seth Godin’s blog
Seth Godin on sliced bread and stuff
Wrote the following comment on Jan 28, 2008 at 4:42 am
It makes me wonder how different my life would be had I not been raised in the “Bible Belt.”
Wrote the following comment on Jan 28, 2008 at 4:37 pm
“I’m curious, but I don’t need an answer as much as I need the curiosity that drives me to question.”
hmmmm….. i think i have a lot of curiosity. Love to understand new things and if it doesnt fit in my beliefs, figure out which one is wrong. BUT curiosity alone would drive me mad. Curiousity without any resolution… i’d feel like i was always chewing my food and never swallowing. Surely the point of curiosity is to bring some kind of resolve, some kind of peace to the questions that led you to search?
Wrote the following comment on Jan 28, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Well perhaps I am not clear. By ‘the search’ I really mean the journey. You’re unlikely to actually find God in any indisputable way while you are walking around living and breaking with the rest of us. So, while you as a Christian might say you have found God, someone else might dispute that.
In essence I am glad that the search doesn’t resolve because imagine God was like a place you could go or a person you could meet. After you had done that, then what? What would drive a person to do anything after they had met the creator of it all?
So you, Rachel, have found God, and that’s great. But now what? Would you say that you are trying to learn more about God on a continuing basis? Isn’t this then simply a continuation of your search? I believe it is. You’ve chosen a religion and now you seek to dwell in that and ‘with God’ as much as possible.
I’m also not entirely comfortable with the notion of looking at something as open to interpretation as God, and defining it as flat out wrong. If God is real and ‘he’ created all things then he demonstrated an immense scale of diversity. This diversity does not translate well in the rigid confines of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ religious mindsets.
To extend your food analogy I would say this. I think it is important to remain mobile between meals in order to avoid the risk of becoming spiritually obese and mobility impaired.
Wrote the following comment on Jan 29, 2008 at 2:28 pm
When you said “imagine God was like a person you can meet” my first thought was – Jesus. Christianity teaches that there were a bunch of people who met God and the experience didn’t leave them thinking, “Oh, what now?”
“What would drive a person to do anything after they had met the creator of it all?” My answer: The creator of it all. If, when we find the supreme source of power in the universe, he wants us to do stuff surely that’s far more of a challenge than finding him in the first place?
Wrote the following comment on Jan 29, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I agree with you on many levels. I wonder if you have ever read a book by Donald Miller called Blue Like Jazz (or any of his other books). He has many a thoughts like the ones you pose. My problem (I think you would call it that) is that I believe what I believe. I know that from the get go. But I think it is important to listen to what others say and to apply life experience to your belief system. This has given me a new perspective on my values. I still have the core beliefs but am definitely changing how I approach them and how others fit into that system.
Wrote the following comment on Jan 29, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Simon
Curiously, I find your reminders of how I am perceived by those outside of my faith so refreshing. One of the problems with Christians for the last 100+ years is that we might be able to explain what we believe, or even what the bible says, but we cannot explain why we believe it…and now many who claim faith in Jesus of Nazareth cannot even tell you what they believe or what the bible says or know church history. Thank you for your reminders to be genuine, and well studied, as well as non-condemning of those who believe differently. Much of what gets passed off for Christianity today is nothing more than Midwest conservatism and moralism.
P.S. Sorry for the missed opportunity to pop some primers on your last visit. I’ll leave a voicemail instead of a text message next time.
Wrote the following comment on Jan 30, 2008 at 12:34 am
Mark, I think you misunderstand me though. As a Christian you already believe you have met (in some sense) God. But I don’t mean meet in some sense, I mean actually meet face to face, physically.
Paul Brady wrote “who could see heaven and not want to stay” in his song ‘Nobody knows‘ and I guess that’s what I was getting at. You are very much still searching for God in my opinion Mark. Yeah, you’ve found your religion, but you have yet to come face to face with God.
Religion is a choice. God isn’t.
Wrote the following comment on Jan 31, 2008 at 3:25 am
I laughed when I read your comments to my “devolve” post. The item seems to have rippled out farther than I could have imagined! LOL
About Christians being closed minded, or not using their minds to examine their faith, that is unChristian (closed mindedness). Here is a story that illustrates that from Matthew 22:35-40
35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 “The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Jesus said that our love of God requires us to engage our minds in that process. To ‘do’ faith blindly is not just wrong, but also dangerous. If we do not know why we believe as well as what we believe, we are in danger.
So our minds are to be engaged, i.e. ‘open.’
On the other hand, there are certain non-negotiables that cannot be given away. The Big 10 comes to mind, the Sermon on the Mount, and 1 Corinthians 15:3-5: 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
Then there is the ultimate exclusive claim by Jesus Himself.
John 14:6 “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’â€
Aside from that, we can talk about the rest (I hope) in good will and trust.
Anyway, thanks for your comment to my Xanga! I know that you did not ask for all that; it’s a fault of mine: long answers to short questions (or unasked ones, apparently).
Wrote the following comment on Jan 31, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Wow…lots of good thoughts here and in the comments….What is amazing to me is that religon really isnt much more than history, or the ignoring of history. Think about it. We re write history to suit our needs and we did the same thing with faith. man took the basic message of Christ, which was the good news…love your neighbor as your self, and have no other gods..right? how simple….and ever since we have tried to dogmatize, doctrinize, and place God in whatever box best fits us, when we should simply be trying to live as best we can, grow in understanding and knowledge, and try to apply that simply love and joy to our lives and allow it to spread to everyone else around us….religon is the ritual…the manner in which the powerful try to control the masses, because with just government it isnt possible. I have a strong faith in God, but I am a ragamuffin, a refugee of sorts….but I have always thought that God has a special place in his heart for people who are constantly searching for Truth. It isnt like only chewing your food, to resond to a previous comment….it is the savoring of each bite of your life…good and bad…because of the truth that you find…the meals eaten, the experience of that way too hot chili pepper that I ate right before bed and shot fire from my arse for three days…and the learning process each of those things bring to your life to teach you to set your life according to the truth that you have found…..peace and love…van
Wrote the following comment on Feb 1, 2008 at 3:31 pm
to clarify the chewing food analogy cause i thought it was brilliant and maybe not so far off from what you said Van.. and it was something i meant to say along the way anyways but never did.
if you search without an intent on discovery, or some understanding, then you are headed nowhere. If you instead take what you learn along the way and incorporate it into your beliefs, then you are at least progressing and not just filling your head with a bunch of data(that would be the swallow). While the search is a great thing, and what we wlll spend our lives doing, we are all in need of resolutions as we work out what’s true. I think we find pieces of it along the way and if we didnt, then a search would cease to be what it is!!- exploring and examining in order to discover(thank you dictionary.com). if all you do is explore and examine, you’re not searching. There is no search without at least the desire of the latter- discovery. Even if you never reach it, at least you tried and at least you had a destination involved.
So to go back to the food analogy, a good search is a healthy balance of each; chewing and swallowing; exploring and discovering. To emphasize any one end of it is unbalanced and wont move you foreward. I think religion emphasizes the latter, but its no better to emphasize the former. You need both.
Wrote the following comment on Feb 1, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Well then I guess we agree Rachel. As I have said, I believe you are searching still, so yep, you understand and we agree. Cool :-)
Wrote the following comment on Feb 1, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Simon, I think you misunderstand me ;)
I wasn’t talking about ‘in some sense’, I was talking about the Christian belief of Jesus being the incarnation of God. Therefore, the disciples and those who met Jesus met God face to face (*cough*insomesense*cough*).
On another note, to extend the food analogy (because analogies are better when extend well beyond breaking point) and to tie in with Simon’s previous post on fundamentalism: swallowing without chewing is dangerous – you never know what sort of rubbish you might end up swallowing.